kurt's nightmare

Generally, I post once a week. Topics are randomly selected and depend mostly upon whether it's baseball season or not. Other topics will include sex, politics, old girlfriends, music, and whatever else pops into my little brain. If you'd like to read, or ignore, my blog about China: http://meidabizi.blogspot.com/

Location: Dayton, OH, Heard & McDonald Islands

I'm an Associate Professor of Philosophy at the University of Dayton. I represent no one but myself, and barely do that. I'm here mostly by accident.

Tuesday, November 25, 2008

Flame Out

As discussed here, on occasion, and in the comments section, I have a little hobby of talking to people at Websites. I find it much more interesting, much more entertaining—and I learn more—by talking to people who disagree with me. In addition to various factoids, I learn what people who might be generously characterized as "political opponents" are thinking about things. Thus I had heard of Sarah Palin a long time ago.

To date, I've been kicked off the Society of Women in Philosophy List, Stormfront, the Ann Coulter Chat Room, and Covert Conservatives. Most recently, I crashed and burned at Outcast Conservatives. The latter two are spin-offs from Ann Coulter's idiotic decision to remove moderators from the chatroom linked from her column. The moderators did an excellent job, ran a responsible joint, and had a lively and generally edifying place. I didn't agree with very many people on anything there, but it was fun. For those who think Ann Coulter's 15 minutes of fame are up, this offers more evidence: she dissed, badly, some of her fans who worked hard, and as volunteers, to get her "ideas" across and discussed. Hey, it's not my fault that her ideas tend to be wholly vacuous, and are entertaining solely because she is clever, mean, and can turn a phrase.

The SWIP moderator kicked me off because I sort of agreed with a poster, who thought academics should replace "blind refereeing" with "anonymous refereeing." Seemed ok to me. She then went on, in a response, to suggest that we should eliminate all sight-based terms from English. I think my response was something like this:

Thanks for your enlightening post. You've helped clarify an important issue, and shed light on it in a way that helped me discover some important points. I now see why bright people can disagree, and obscuring these kinds of issues, and leaving them in the dark, doesn't provide the kind of clear solution bringing them out of the shadows and into the light of day can.

Or something along those lines. The SWIP moderator didn't say why she axed me; she just did.

Stormfront is a scary place, run by serious neo-Nazi white supremacists who think Timothy McVeigh is kinda cool, enjoy reading The Turner Diaries, and have lots and lots of guns. These are the folks who blow up buildings, shoot abortion providers, and, sometimes on a long weekend, frolic under their designer sheets and pointy hoods. I lasted pretty long there, but they didn't like someone talking about their beloved biological theories who knew anything about biology. Can't really blame 'em; fixed delusions are much more enjoyable when they remain unchallenged. Plus, those guys scared me. Scare me.

I got kicked off Covert Conservatives because a poster said some stuff that was clearly code for good ol' fashioned "soft" racism. This was, as I've said before, a remarkably tolerant bunch for putting up with my bullshit. But the emotions about Obama were pretty serious at that point: the standard view was that he was an elitist, a black nationalist, a Socialist, Marxist, Communist, Muslim, a bad Christian, terrorist sympathizer, hated America, and sought to ruin America. Put these altogether with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright, and add phrases that indicate Obama "acts white," "doesn't know his place," and is, more or less, "uppity." I responded—to a specific poster—more or less "why don't you just call him a 'nigger' and get it over with?" Down comes the ban button, and after some desultory private conversations with the moderator, and some feeble suggestions that I apologize, well: I'm done. Too bad; I had made some nice friends there, both conservative as well as a very amusing liberal rugby fan from New Zealand.

At Outcast Conservatives, tempers ran high just after the election—and some of these folks were convinced over the weekend before it that McCain was still going to win. If I said anything, it was construed as "gloating," which was a little odd given how innocuous my remarks were and how assiduously I tried to avoid gloating. The term "smug" got thrown around a lot, as if I had suddenly become smug. I was always smug.

So the moderator kept asking me why I was supporting Obama. I told him, more than once, that no one on that site would agree with my reasons, but that I had some. They only were supporting McCain because he wasn't Obama. So if I supported Obama because of his view on "choice," they obviously would disagree, and Lord knows they have enough abortion threads over there already. So why go through it?

In any case, he pestered me, so I offered some reasons. Of course, they were all rejected. What a shocker: conservatives (serious conservatives) rejecting reasons for supporting their current most-hated domestic enemy. So the guy asks me for reasons, I tell him he won't like them, he continues to ask, suggesting that if I don't have any then I'm some kind of moron (which is ironic, given how much these people didn't like McCain, admitted it, and refused to say why they were voting for McPalin, beyond, again, he wasn't Obama). So I finally gave up. This board was never very friendly (with a couple of exceptions), had some seriously hostile people with profound superiority complexes, and I never felt all that comfortable. So I decided not to get banned, but flame out. This is what I said, one last time, about why I supported Obama:

He is smart. He recognized what a fool's errand Iraq was a long time ago. He thinks a pregnant woman should be in charge of her body. He thinks the polarity of wealth, manifest particularly by how GAAP has been used, tax policy, derivatives, credit default swaps, etc. needs to be addressed. He recognizes that parents have a responsibility to raise their children, but sometimes need some help in education and with health care.

He wasn't John McCain.

I haven't heard a lot of voters for the latter give many reasons other than "He wasn't Barack Obama."

@$%# you. [They wouldn't let me say "Fuck you" on this board, no matter how I tried.]

'night. Have fun. I thought incestuous slaps on the back, especially after getting your asses kicked because Sarah Palin was--is--such an embarrassment--was odd. Watching Republicans and conservatives go after each other does have its benefits, and forced me to learn how to spell "Schadenfreude."

I won't be back. This is no fun; feel free to say I don't get it, etc.. Whatever works; reasons are almost certainly irrelevant. After all, your guy won the "over 65 white" demographic.

So I'm not on any boards now. I've moved on from that hobby, at least for awhile or until I find a new one that is both educational and entertaining. The cool thing is that I got a good paper out of my hobby, in Teaching Philosophy, have developed an in-class exercise out of it, and have published several other short versions of the classroom exercise.

It was fun while it lasted.


Blogger bmackintosh said...

I can't believe you would make such remarks on a Feminist Philosophy site! How scandalous!! "Words hurt" remember.

The real reason you were knocked off is your level of testosterone. Perhaps you should introduce SWIP to the Stormfront folks.

Also, Stormfront is not the kind of place I would expect you. I do believe you are a cyber-missionary.

6:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was doing missionary work at Stormfront, bringing to the isolated tribes of white supremacist neo-Nazi anti-Semites the good news of DNA, genetic drift, and the other glorious possibilities of the neo-Darwinian synthesis.

They really hated being made to look foolish—this isn't arrogance, in that they made it so easy—by someone posting under the name "Zippy."

By the way, we need a wiffle ball banquet. Preferably the kind without food. Maybe, etymologically speaking, a "Symposium."


7:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:40 AM  
Blogger Bazarov said...

I have to admit I'm impressed by your tenacity. I used to go to chat rooms to argue/debate many things, mostly about the existence of god(s) and whether or not materialism was sufficient in providing an answer for consciousness [there is an answer, but few want seem open to it].
I found out quickly that one could come up with a script for how most "arguments" would go, and that they rarely strayed from that. I had given it up until you made me go find forums and chat rooms about the evo/ID "debate". I was quickly booted from all the forums that favored creationism because I invariably ended up calling spades, well, stupid, ignorant, lying spades. I hope the format in your current classes has improved some, or maybe I just went about it all wrong, which is highly likely.
Anyway, I think your time would probably be better spent watching people jam on youtube or watching illegal episodes of Cosmos on google video...or this stuff!


10:47 AM  
Blogger kmosser said...

Part of the trick is finding the right place, which is difficult.

The other part is keeping one's sense of humor, treat others with respect, and not take anything too seriously.

I was usually able to do this, but as you can tell, I also sometimes failed.

In my paper on this, I actually list a bunch of "rules" for engaging folks who wholly despise you. They aren't bad.

10:58 AM  
Blogger bmackintosh said...

I am all for a Wiffle theory session or as you put it "symposium."

Bazarov: Have you ever read G.K Chesterton? I think you might enjoy him. Though it would take some tolerance of religiosity to find the humor. One doesn't find much wit in Christian apologetics these days. That's such a pity.

11:05 AM  
Blogger Bazarov said...

bmackintosh: no, I haven't. If I can squeeze it in between Mr. F-to-the-D and all the languages I'm currently trying to cram in my noggen, I'll give it a go, though the avenues to catching my interest with regards to religion are very narrow, and the aforementioned Mr. D seems to be one of the few who I tolerate, even though I disagree with him almost entirely.
Any book in particular by Mr. Chesterton you had in mind?

11:17 AM  
Blogger kmosser said...

"One doesn't find much wit in Christian apologetics these days."

Good one, Brent.

Bazarov meets Chesterton. The latter wins on style points, until the former pins Chesterton, concluding by smashing him over the head with a chair while laughing maniacally. À la Raskolnikov.

Coming to Pay per View soon.

1:43 PM  
Blogger bmackintosh said...

Try "Orthodoxy." His essays however are the best for wit. There is a "Selected Works..."

Also you might find his debate with George Bernard Shaw somewhere online, though I can't find it.

"F to the D" Sounds like a guitar move.

3:35 PM  
Blogger bmackintosh said...

Try "Orthodoxy." His essays however are the best for wit. There is a "Selected Works..."

Also you might find his debate with George Bernard Shaw somewhere online, though I can't find it.

"F to the D" Sounds like a guitar move.

3:37 PM  
Blogger Bazarov said...

Thanks. I did a wiki search on him and found he wrote a lot of short stories--my preferred format. Maybe I should check some of them out? I just got a Swedish translation of Jules Verne's "Michel Strogoff: The Tsar's Courier", or "Tsarens Kurir", so that should be keeping me busy for quite some time.

I'm not much of a smashing people over the heads with chairs sorta guy. I'm actually rather non-confrontational (I don't tell priest/pedophile jokes in Catholic university classrooms for example), but that changes with the written word.

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